A friend of mine, a couple of years back, needed some contract programming done. They hired a guy, and over the next 6 months realized the guy they interviewed for the job wasn't the guy doing the work.
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NorthodoxySeptember 17, 2020 8:47 AM
The colleges are entirely complicit in this scandal. I taught at several local colleges in Ontario where the gravy flowed from the international student body. Their fees were three times what local students paid as such, the percentage of international grew from about 30% in year one of my teaching to 95% in year 5.
Just about every single Indian student, male or female, cheated on every test, paper or presentation and the school did little to nothing about it. When a student was caught cheating - and it was always obvious as they usually weren't smart or concerned enough to try to hide it - we would have to offer them an alternative evaluation. They were never failed for cheating. The colleges had hitched their financial wagons to these groups and it meant new labs, more professors and campus buildings.
The other problem of course is dumbing down the curriculum to accommodate the 'culture'. The most popular program was Hospitality since it was the easier of that or Engineering, the two programs for which a student could study in Canada.
We did not get the best and brightest but certainly biggest cheats. Every year for five years, the Indian kids cheated without shame. It was a badge of honour to 'get away with it' and they spent more time trying to figure out ways to cheat than to learn.
We here in the west are just stupid enough to believe that every other culture thinks exactly as we do and plays by the same rules and we're always shocked to find out that the rules only apply to us.
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Doktor JeepSeptember 17, 2020 8:49 AM
"If the British system of hard work and intelligence was so vaunted, why the hell did they have to invade and colonise India for her riches?"
Once they saw how the people lived and ran things, it would be a shame to let the land go to waste.
Were it not for Anglo stewardship you would be either be bathing in a river and starving or maybe someone would have castrated you and have you begging in the street.
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The Lab ManagerSeptember 17, 2020 8:53 AM
It's been almost 20 years, but even my old Indian (with a dot) advisor who came to the US in the early 90's commented on how low quality of most of the Indian students coming in these days. I've worked with internationals of various stripes; the Chinese and Indian seem to lack a hands on culture. OMG, you want me, and educated Brahmin, to use a screwdriver? Sweat out in the field. There were a couple of exceptional ones, but not the norm.
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TMLutasSeptember 17, 2020 8:54 AM
I just put the following question up on Quora:
https://www.quora.com/unanswered/What-are-the-lessons-learned-regarding-the-College-Boards-partnership-with-Hanban-to-promote-Confucius-Institutes
Simple, clean, one subject, and neutral. It's much harder to dodge and evade the implications that way in my opinion. Mixing up a PRC espionage effort, Jewish IQ, and Indian test cheating is much less useful at moving the needle of public opinion. So why the dog's breakfast here?
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D.R. BrookerSeptember 17, 2020 8:54 AM
A relative of mine is a finance prof at a Canadian University. He said the cheating by Indians and Chinese is off the charts. There is no real honour in these cultures. Their honour comes by way of "any means necessary". He has now made the exams so hard that cheating by these groups is near impossible and he takes pleasure in fielding the whining complaints.
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furor kek tonicus ( if you don't want to Racist, you must confess: Islam is right about the Jews )September 17, 2020 9:03 AM
it's not that Indians are completely without talent. even if you ignore the absurd architecture / science involved in their historical temples they do succeed in arenas in which it is impossible to cheat.
as a fer instance, Chess. #10 Anish Giri has a Nepali ( directly borders India ) father and Anand and ... Harikrishna are in the top 20.
kind of hard to cheat a public chess game with observers.
of course, there are a +billion Indians. there damn well better be some bright ones.
and the fact that there are smart Indians doesn't mean that they don't cheat in other arenas.
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buwayaSeptember 17, 2020 9:05 AM
Over the last 20 years I have run numerous projects involving software and digital systems, many employing contractors or vendors out of India (southern, Hyderabad and Chennai), or with Indian personnel in the US. The quality is mixed. Some are utterly brilliant, many can be described as plodders. The biggest or most common fault, relative to Americans, is their lack of perspective, where they tend to see parts of application or system design in isolation and not as a whole, and they often have no interest in finding out. Its often difficult to get them to see what we want to achieve. There is also often a lack of accountability, poor QC, etc. They are however getting much better lately, mainly because there is now a good numberof Indian project managers with US experience and a US state of mind, that can organize and educate on their side.
It is fun to run these projects. And the thrill of commissioning a functional system is indescribable, when all the status bars come up "green", all the teams reporting in, etc. If it weren't that the stress and bad health got to me (I dont miss the regular Sunday night system down calls and struggle sessions), I would still be there.
They can be badly mismanaged. And they don't tend to internally self-correct for this through ad-hoc self organized teams. Many a project has been saved by running an unofficial team inside the official project structure. Americans and Euros are very good at this. You need really good leaders for Indians. Americans and Euros can often succeed even if led by idiots.
We've had lots of Euros btw. Britons, Germans, Danes, Russians, Italians. And dont forget South Africans. Theres a lot more of those fellows about than Musk and Thiel.
Engineering is full of specialized companies who own their slice of the world. And it always was like this really, going back to the 18th century or earlier. If you want to do x for real, be prepared to run off to Germany or England, or maybe Hyderabad or Taipei, or to bring in one of the global specialists in x.
I would not call these people (Indians) riff-raff. They are (mostly) very valuable, if your objective is simply to get things done.
Your cultural-social troubles are another thing.
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Chip HazardSeptember 17, 2020 9:22 AM
"Looks like you're just stupid. The British invaded India for her natural resources. The people they found almost useless."
As it is with most efforts of this kind.
Historically, as a rule, the lands that get invaded are rich and the inhabitants don't get rich from the land because they are too stupid or too lazy or a combination of both. Ditto that, in regards to fighting off said invaders.
The exceptions to this rule are various American Indian tribes (the Tlingit tribe comes to mind).
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DonReynoldsSeptember 17, 2020 9:24 AM
Vox is correct, of course.
Within my own society and culture, WE have no problem with rules (and laws). WE expect the rules to mean what they say and not get twisted by interpretation or by some weird definition, that no one ever thought of, or suddenly being the same as 2 + 2 = 5, sorta and almost or kinda. Maybe there is a waiver for that or an exemption or a discount on Tuesday. Cheating, you see, is the same as stealing. It is not only unChristian, but it is unfair for everyone else to be held to the rules, while some are allowed to trample any or all rules underfoot. Americans are a fair people and those who do not follow the law are being unfair. In sports, WE expect sportsmanship, where the players and coaches do their best WITHIN the rules to win the contest. Cheating would make a fair and legitimate victory into a tarnished and broken trophy.
Those who break the rules and cheat do not see themselves as thieves, but if they did, they might see themselves as clever thieves. To them, cheating is smart and it enables them to win, when they do not have the ability to win fairly within the rules. I get my biggest thrill from winning, even when others cheat. You want to cheat, I will let you. There are always going to be times when the ref does not catch a cheater. When you win anyway, it makes the win all the better. Cheaters seem to get more desperate and promise themselves they will cheat MORE next time, so they can win. Cheats may know that they are more likely to lose, and they don't feel badly about cheating. They may even believe that everyone cheats, even if not in the same way. And that is where they are wrong. Everyone else is NOT as crooked as they are. Winning is not a good excuse for cheating.
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StilichoSeptember 17, 2020 9:27 AM
Any American who has dealt very much with Jews, Chinese, or Indians in professional roles knows two things very well: 1) they are not particularly bright, especially when compared to their American peers; and 2) they have no concept of a "profession" in the traditional, western sense.
They have to go back. If they refuse, the prize behind door #2 won't be what they think it is.
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Beans: Soaked and StrainedSeptember 17, 2020 10:06 AM
3) when going through a sales process they will always try to cheat and overcharge you, while always accusing you of trying to cheat them.
I no longer attempt to work with purchasing managers of the low-trust tribal variety.
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van helsingSeptember 17, 2020 9:28 AM
well #3, lets respond like this to the perfesser. yes, its for us, so GTFO if you don't like it.
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Chip HazardSeptember 17, 2020 9:29 AM
"That sounds a lot like: who are you going to believe? Me or your own lying eyes."
I am reminded of a line from a play/movie written by (((David Mamet))):
"PATEL? Fucking Patel? Where do you get these deadbeats?...The god Shiva could come down and say, "Sign the dotted line!". He wouldn't sign. And the god Vishnu too."
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Jose MiguelSeptember 17, 2020 9:32 AM
+1 to Sillon. The bottom is a people whose elites sold themselves out centuries ago to the Synagogue of Satan for empire, whose common people in their naiveness not only barely opposed it but continuously bought the lies even as they got more and more ridiculous.
This is why Apostle Paul included the part to be as wise as serpents. To not do so is foolishness, which is a sin.
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VDSeptember 17, 2020 9:34 AM
Buwaya, do you think chaos will not reign on foriegn lands when the calming influence of empire is removed?
He'll be fine. They've got Duterte.
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MatamorosSeptember 17, 2020 9:35 AM
An Aussie friend told me about doctors displaying placques in India stating something like "Failed Medical Exam".
They had status because they did well enough to be allowed to sit the exams.
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VDSeptember 17, 2020 9:36 AM
I would not call these people (Indians) riff-raff.
I would. And I designed a software project for 3M that was assigned by 3M to one of their production teams out of India. They were worse than useless and took four months to barely do what a single American programmer could have done in two days.
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Shane BradmanSeptember 17, 2020 9:37 AM
Having gone through a thoroughly converged university, I can say without a doubt that Chinese students all cheat and none are intelligent. They cheat on exams frequently. They pay for assignments. They get preferential marking to everyone else. I'm not speculating, I've seen it. Chinese are retards but they're fantastic at lying and cheating to get ahead of every one else.
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VDSeptember 17, 2020 9:38 AM
Nobody's going back.
I tend to agree. That's why tens of millions of people, of every race, creed, and color are going to die. Because a) all the post-1965 invaders are too stubborn and too stupid to admit that they are not Americans and b) too few Americans are willing to make them go back.
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buwayaSeptember 17, 2020 9:44 AM
"Why did so many Indians fight for the British?"
As per Fortescue in his magisterial History of the British Army, it was because the British could promise regular pay for their mercenaries, and could be trusted to honor promises of pensions and other benefits. Indian employers of mercenaries. were far less trustworthy.
Also an interesting book, "Wellington in India", Jac Weller
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JovianStormSeptember 17, 2020 9:52 AM
There's a glut of foreigners in Japan that need to go back as well. What is it about white liberals that make them rail against colonialism in their home countries but get them into Tokyo for 3 months and suddenly they think they're Oda Nobunaga and now they want voting rights?
We might end up just dumping them in the ocean but we're worried about what will happen to the ocean...
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Doktor JeepSeptember 17, 2020 9:54 AM
People are not really worth the trouble it takes to keep them from killing each other.
Sad though. I know some good fellows who, if they went back, would be like a god with their skills and much happier too. I have yet to meet an immigrant with brown skin that is actually happy or could be happy if they did not constantly bombard themselves with material goods and mass entertainment. It does not help that there are so many materialistic solipsistic Americans who think that life without baubles and Cardi B is some kind of hell.
An irony really, to hear immigrants speak of life from the village or town they came from and found it so quaint while at the same time this is the lifestyle that Americans find lost to them. Those small towns of central America not getting destroyed like small towns in the USA.
"Remember what they took from you"
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buwayaSeptember 17, 2020 9:55 AM
"Buwaya, do you think chaos will not reign on foriegn lands when the calming influence of empire is removed?"
A crisis in the US will cause a global economic disaster. And who knows what else. And who knows what country will come off worse, or worst. If you are going to self-exile, do so with an understanding that safety for a family is in dispersion, and the ability to flee. From here, to there, or vice versa. The best passports to have are probably Euro-EU, which I have.
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BarbarossaSeptember 17, 2020 10:02 AM
I'll toss my own data point in, though it is 20 years old. I attended an MBA program in the USNWR Top 10. I learned that part of the way you grab one of those highly vaunted slots is to have a healthy percentage of international students. In this school's case, the international contingent was almost entirely Asian, mostly Korean. Their English was uniformly poor. In group discussions, they contributed absolutely nothing. On timed, closed book tests, they were mostly mediocre. But...give them work that could be done away from class, and the product was stellar. Now the Japanese engineer who was in my statistics group had legit math skills, though his English wasn't great either.
As for engineering school, there were no Chinese students in my class, but we did have Chinese TAs, mostly in the physics and math subjects. You always dreaded getting one of them because their English was so bad that you literally couldn't understand a word they said. Per some of the above discussion, I have no doubt that the first wave the Chinese sent over back then had real skills (after all, 0.1% of a population of a billion is a million math whizzes), but my dealings with the Chinese (and Indians) immigrants over the years in both the military and business has not revealed any great innate genius inherent to the people. On the other hand, I've seen plenty evidence of sly dealing and "fake 'til ya make it" behavior.
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DanielSeptember 17, 2020 10:04 AM
This is why it is nearly impossible to play any "honor" games online, even ones that are cooperative or without victory conditions (like a traditional dice-dependent role-playing game). If you don't know your opponent in real life, it is remarkable how otherwise friendly and enjoyable online personalities cheat the offline dice rolls.
In a game situation, this is stupid. I can't imagine feeling the same level of fun and enjoyment if I was just calling my own shots, but I guess people are people.
Even if a Chicom student is here face-to-face, we share no culture and hardly any conversation. Confucian learning is based on copying. This should not be surprising. Chi-Q is not IQ.
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buwayaSeptember 17, 2020 10:07 AM
"He'll be fine. They've got Duterte."
They have the Chinese 1 hour away by fighter bomber, of which they've got over 1000. And the local infrastructure can be smashed in an hour by a few dozen of these 1000, leaving the bulk of 100,000,000 people starving. Duterte is old and sick and more corrupt and aquiring an encrustation of cronies.
Everybody has problems.
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J Van StrySeptember 17, 2020 10:10 AM
When I was a hiring manager I used to demand face to face interviews. More than once the India who showed up for the interview was NOT the same one I interviewed on the phone (I have a good ear for voices).
I also got to know all of the universities in India and was able to ask a few questions to find out if they really went where they'd claimed.
We were required to hire Indians (EDS) because they're a 'minority' (that's pretty funny right there when you think about it) under the terms of California contracts. But because I did due diligence, at least the ones I got could do the work.
Which was why my team was the only one that got their work done.
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swiftfoxmark2September 17, 2020 10:11 AM
Given how extensive the cheating is amongst Chinese people, I would argue that their supposed 105 IQ average is utter nonsense and could even be one standard deviation lower.
I wonder if on a global scale, European descendants were really the ones with the higher average IQ all along. Given how many of the other races who contend with us also have a culture of cheating, this would not surprise me in the least.
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Ominous CowherdSeptember 17, 2020 10:12 AM
Pratisara wrote:The extended family is always trying to pull you down to their level!!
This is a problem only for the clannish. I see it among the local aborigines, who are clannish and medium IQ. I see it much less among the local Slavs, who are clannish but high IQ. It's pretty much unheard of among the Americans.
So, this is how we know you are clannish.
Pratisara wrote:Clannishness in Indians is limited to people from the states of Gujarat, Kerala and Andhra. That too, only within subgroups in those states.
Some Indians are more clannish than others. Got it.
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buwayaSeptember 17, 2020 10:30 AM
Your crisis is likely to turn violent, but there are way more scenarios in this than your worst case.
There are mestizo societies after all. I expect California will become something more like Brazil as the population of most of it is ethnically mixed to a profound degree. Its already mixing very fast. The likely scenario of negative consequence is economic stagnation. Or Malaysia with distinct castes with different legal treatment. Or like imperial Indonesia with its Javanese overlords. Etc.
A few years ago I was at the UCLA graduation. Mommas and pappas were of all sorts, and the kids were, a lot of them, unplaceable, though it seems most were human. And its hard to have a race war when you have to shoot in five directions, or more, and sometimes its your cousins who will be shooting back at you. That will certainly annoy your lola. Best not to start shooting.
Or who knows. Something not good is coming, but we have no clear idea what it is. History will play a trick on all of us, probably.
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glueballsSeptember 17, 2020 10:35 AM
b) too few Americans are willing to make them go back
Some good personal news in that respect. Our plans for defense of the realm used to include my wife reloading mags for me and calling out intruders of the various zones preplanned around our home.
We questioned whether she could kill. Anything, possibly even last ditch self-defense. The local riots, including one within shouting distance, have disabused us of her reluctance to kill. She's a decent shot and now has fire in her eyes. My honey wants to shoot them all dead, preferably at her convenience but she'll take the miscreants as they come.
We had lengthy discussions during a recent drive up to northern Minnesota.* The wife is with us 100% now. They must go back and, best yet, the small hats will make good targets. I believe this dog can now actively hunt.
*Drove through Minne/St. P and thought to stop by VD's old house to bring our greetings to the monsters and other literary characters of the nearby lake and woods that inspired VD as a youth but it rained the whole drive and we were pressed for time. They're probably UA subscribers, patrons and editors anyhow.
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Dr CavemanSeptember 17, 2020 10:45 AM
It is not just cheating. I've worked with a lot of Chinese students and many have a formidable work ethic that has been instilled since primary school. The math level of an average Chinese highschool grad is orders of magnitude higher than that of am average American kid.
However, a lot of their skills revolve around rote learning. Creative problem solving and doing hypothesis-driven research is something they're not very good at
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Azure AmaranthineSeptember 17, 2020 10:51 AM
"Nobody's going back."
Then they'll be dying back.
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Azure AmaranthineSeptember 17, 2020 10:56 AM
Oh, and your outmarrying ability? Expect that to disappear this generation, it has got perhaps ten years left if that.
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GroovewareSeptember 17, 2020 10:58 AM
Scotland has gave the world so much, besides living next to the English that have tried to wipe us off the face of the planet. Refrigerator, Tarmac, Penicillan, Bicycles, Bank Of England, Golf, Pneumatic Tyres, Dolly The Sheep, Flushing Toilets,Hyperdermic syringe, Grand Theft Auto, Crimial Fingerprints, Colour Photography, Patainted the first Telephone, TV, Help build America with Andrew Carnegie, I could go on. And we were some of the first slaves sent out to America, do you here us moaning and demanding reparations.
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Crush LimbrawSeptember 17, 2020 11:11 AM
All of which proves again that if you lose:
-Christianity by converging it into Churchianity;
-Educational institutions from teaching truth to preaching delusional insanity.........
Eventually, the practical results of that malignant mindset will change the Culture to the point of its own destruction - resulting in a government and politics which reflect its past neglect.
As I say so often - trying to change a country through politics is akin to shoveling manure. Who's feeding DaBeast?
When you read history - including the Bible - it becomes obvious that when you mix fundamentally different cultures, ruin will follow.
There is only one exception promised - Jesus said 'Go and make disciples of ALL NATIONS....' - you can read the rest at Matthew 28:18-20. BTW - that is NOT a 2 week mid-winter mission trip to some poor country. Furthermore, if any country needs Christian disciples, it is right here and tight now - as you can read at my website home.
Whether by malignant intent, infantile do-goodism or plain unfettered corporate greed - The Immigration Act of 1965 and others have already and will continue to produce their ruinous effects.
Prepare the remnant to face reality and restore what has been lost - NOW!
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The Last RomanSeptember 17, 2020 11:13 AM
I knew a family of Pakistanis who cycled ownership of their store every few years. They did this in order to take advantage of new business owner tax breaks.
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Zeroh TollrantsSeptember 17, 2020 8:58 PM
Very common practice. Several Indian or Pakistani family members will buy businesses, quick shops, motels, dry cleaners, etc. The law gives them 7 yrs, no taxes. At the end of 7 yrs, they swap ownership of the businesses amongst themselves, and continue their musical chair ownership until the government stops them. Which it rarely, if ever, does.
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Good KnightSeptember 17, 2020 11:24 AM
@52 Your linear projection of the future is rather simplistic. Do you know how many generations it would take to breed out any noticeable Indian strain in a world where there is a noticeable physiological different between the average Swede and Norwegian? How much time does each generation take? How long will it take for heritage Americans to become more militant about preserving their race (this process is already under way)? The subsection of (white) Americans available for out-breeding in the future will be diminished by multiple factors, not limited to the fact that liberal whites are more likely to outbreed, but less likely to breed, period. That available subpopulation will also decline in numbers rapidly through life-choices due to psychological impacts of the coming future events and also the physical conflict between demographic groups in the U.S.
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Mr.MantraManSeptember 17, 2020 11:58 AM
"Brazil" I've heard that one for decades, but thankfully the Left has adopted Racial Theory as their own and are killing off the CivNat golden goose of idiocy. CivNat America worked with whites as the tax chattel that could be sold and traded, the empire collapses once enough whites ask what's in it for them.
IMO the far future will be far whiter than it is today or especially the near future. Not that I hold any uber race theories but being white or whiter in looks and demeanor and accomplishments is people's greatest desire.
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Canadian WarlordSeptember 17, 2020 12:01 PM
There is a more societally dangerous aspect to this trend - the willingness of bureaucracy to cooperate. icbc, the government insurance agency, _always_ gives in to scams from a certain ethnicity. The commercial trucking enforcement also seems to skip the regulation of rotating drivers, slave wages, exploitation of fresh-off-the-boat workers who don't know better, and whatever other cheating is involved with cornering the industry entirely. The results speak for themselves - dot indian truck drivers running through team buses, and pedolib reporters cackling about it on social media. Stupid hockey player kids, shame on them for being white and run over at the same time. Didn't they get the memo??? This country is not for them, the women have decided that brown people will share our civilization. The same people who can't share anything without destroying it.
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The FezSeptember 17, 2020 12:02 PM
I teach computer visualization for Architecture at a public university and my Indian students (who now comprise half of my class roster)are by far the most low-effort achievers that I have encountered. When I review their assignments, it is clear to me that they employ as little creative thinking as possible, and are only interested in 'box-checking' insofar as they can meet the base criteria. They will not participate in class discussion, and show zero interest in conversing over topics or concepts. They want to be guided step-by-step through every assignment, and blame you for any ambiguities or confusion that may arise. Many of my assignments involve intentional ambiguities to test the student's creative thinking; like basic algebra, one must interpolate the missing information from the information that is available. Indians tolerate no such ambiguities and want everything explicitly defined, again, so that they can just check the box and get on with something else. Conversely, my Hispanic students (who comprise the other half of all my students) show far more creativity and initiative, but lack sophistication in their thinking and problem solving. My best students are routinely higher IQ Hispanics, however.
These days I hardly have any white students, but the few that I do have enjoy participation and grasp the higher-level concepts much faster.
Most people don't believe me when I tell them that public technical schools are training, almost entirely, foreigners. In fact, Fall 2020 will be the last semester that I teach given that I am exhausted by having to deal with low-drive, low-intelligence, low-creativity students who expect you to spoon-feed them everything.
The good news is that the Architecture industry still functions on some modicum of meritocracy, and even decent firms try to hire people with the most experience and the best portfolios. Indians routinely have the worst portfolios, and they all copy from each-other verbatim. I have had to review portfolios for hiring purposes, and you quickly discover uncanny similarities in the work of Indian students. I have received multiple portfolios that feature the exact same cover design and layout but with different names. This is probably why, after having worked in four separate firms in eight years, I have never seen a single Indian hire.
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Chris RitchieSeptember 17, 2020 12:04 PM
Damn. We are a long way away from the honor code at the USAF Academy: "We will not lie, steal, or cheat, nor tolerate among us anyone who does."
I just can't stomach what is going on. A measure of cold-hearted ruthlessness is rising.
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Newscaper312September 17, 2020 12:46 PM
Apparently USAF Academy is far away from that too now.
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OvergrownHobbitSeptember 17, 2020 12:06 PM
Never underestimate the power of (1) gross accumulation of cultural capital + (2) flagrant in-group preference.
Failed tribes skip (1)
Add that to the normal human notion that the social rules are merely an optional guideline when dealing with any person from the out group, and you have the pattern for most of human history.
Only a miracle can change that. Fortunately for mankind, A Miracle did.
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swiftfoxmark2September 17, 2020 12:17 PM
Newscaper312 wrote:When I was a new university CS instructor around 2003, I sat in 9n another instructors for a class I was going to reach next semester. Will never forget the scene when she was returning graded programming projects and had two with the same, Indian, name.
One guy gave the other his project to copy, and #2 not only copied the code (not even renaming variables or anything to obscure the fact), he copied all the accompanying write-up too. Literally just printed the other guy's files as-is, including the cover sheet.
Most brazen example, but not uncommon at all.
Did you fail them both?
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Newscaper312September 17, 2020 12:45 PM
Not my course, I was sitting in. Copier got a zero, not sure about the one who gave it to him, the one copied. Sometimes they get their stories straight, saying the copier stole it, and the one aiding skates. I do remember at one point there was a loophole that a student being given a course-level F for cheating could duck it by dropping the course if not too late in semester. That was plugged later. Not enough people booted from program though, in part because the formal academic misconduct process was so much a PITA and likely not stick, w cheaters given far more due process and presumption of innocence, plus a high bar for guilt beyond reasonable doubt (lot better than a guy accused of regret rape), that faculty tended to deal w it more organically, failing at assignment level, w w idiots/cheaters more likely to fail anyway. But then no official track record to nail repeat offenders.
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Snidely WhiplashSeptember 17, 2020 12:30 PM
35 years in IT have taught me a few lessons.
Israelis and Arabs are lying. Not for any real reason, sometimes just for the thrill of lying.
Indians are faking it. The more aggressive and angry he seems, the more he is faking it.
Chinese always have an angle. They have some way they're cheaping out, cutting corners, stealing equipment that they hope you won't notice
Ukrainians in particular, but Slavs generally, will never own up to mistakes.
There is no such thing as mentally healthy lesbian.
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ScuzzamanSeptember 18, 2020 12:39 AM
35 years in IT have taught me a few lessons
34 years here, never worked in the US, but in NZ, Australia, Britain and Germany, my experience is exactly the same.
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Christopher ColSeptember 17, 2020 12:54 PM
Perhaps the 115 avg IQ for ashkenazi, are US/Euro based. The Israeli avg IQ (blended half ashkenazi, half sephardic) is far lower due to selection bias, i.e. the smarter ones stayed in the US/Europe, profit centers etc.
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Valar AddemmisSeptember 17, 2020 12:58 PM
buwaya wrote:I have been tracking the California (Star), Texas and other achievement testing programs since @1995. I was a commenter on the regression models used in the California program. Also the NAEP. Public policy stats, especially in education, were a hobby of mine. These are (or were) meant as quality control for the school systems, and not used for student advancement. There is nothing personally at stake in these. Chinese/Asian performance in those tracks with SATs.
If you were really tracking them since 95, you'd know that for a time the STAR tests were used in California to give college money grants of a thousand dollars or so per year if the student got adequate grades. And that's ignoring that the tests are used for school recognition etc, as well as people willing to cheat will cheat even when the stakes are low.
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Damelon BrinnSeptember 17, 2020 12:59 PM
Support sites like Stack Overflow are filling up with posts thinly disguised as questions, really just looking for someone else to provide a solution they can cut and paste. When I see one like that, I know what kind of name I'll see beneath it. That may not be literal "cheating," but it shows a mindset that copying other people's work is the normal way to get things done.
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Azure AmaranthineSeptember 17, 2020 1:14 PM
"The math level of an average Chinese highschool grad is orders of magnitude higher than that of am average American kid."
In this context meaning 25% latino and 10% black as well as other things. What, you think they don't cheat in highschool too?
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OKSeptember 17, 2020 1:20 PM
In 165 BC, the Chinese invented standardized testing. Approximately 15 minutes later, they invented cheating on standardized tests. We in the West are children in the world of gaming standardized tests.
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SeeingsightsSeptember 17, 2020 1:34 PM
Dishonesty is part of Chinese culture.
I found this from a New York Times article, it is online:
" But in its rush to dominance, China has stood out in another, less boastful way. Since 2012, the country has retracted more scientific papers because of faked peer reviews than all other countries and territories put together, according to Retraction Watch, a blog that tracks and seeks to publicize retractions of research papers."
As Thomas Sowell and others show, there ARE differences between ethnic groups.
And that has implications for policy. For example, attempts to modify material differences between groups for the sake of 'social justice' is wrong headed, as Hayek pointed out long ago.
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glueballsSeptember 17, 2020 1:36 PM
I'm a patent attorney and federal trial lawyer. In quiet years I have served as an adjunct lecturer/visiting professor of computer science and EE to UGs and grad students in the field and also to law students interested in digital rights, patents and security. Credentialism is a real thing, I have always despised factory education even though it was easy for me, so I took the pay cut and liabilities and taught rigorous subject matter while holding my nose. The courses were handed to me on a silver platter by small hats above me.
I have been approached twice to defend Chinese "cheating companies" where they send kids to attend a test session and simply rote memorize a question verbatim and then report back. The Chinese know how to cheat and they do it commonly and well. (I declined representation for "business reasons" but learned a lot personally from the candid disclosures.)
The best nominal computer science students are a tie between N'west Europeans and Israelis. They are both original and creative in rigorous technology pathways. The best EE students are invariably Chinese or Russian/Slavic-somewhat, however, I have followed their career progressions and the best students don't fare well outside academia with exception of a few White boys. I have never experienced a top technical student who was female, however, women do well at math and I cannot fathom why they do not push themselves in applied engineering like EE/CS. They just don't. The top law students, who are uniformly deficient in math and practical skills, tend to be a brother or sister of an engineer and rather skilled in terms of their vocal argumentation. White boys are not particularly skilled at vocal argument but their papers submitted tend to be the best of the best in terms of reasoning, creativity and future projection, and honesty. White boys don't cheat, white women do, and everybody else is looking after their own selves and clans. Our male children are operating under a decisive handicap in my experience.
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Sheila4gSeptember 17, 2020 1:44 PM
Anyone else notice the pattern here - the Indians and the Filippino and other non-White commenters all plan on intermarriage and everyone turning brown to protect their Fake American status. And when it all falls apart because of them, they plan to flee . . . to Europe (or Canada or Australia). Every time I see the the brown/black/yellow men with blue-eyed blondes I want to laugh. The dark fathers always claim their children/grandchildren look White, but with rare exceptions that is not so. They brazenly proclaim 'pride' in their ancestry and physiognomy while assiduously working to whiten it and debase the gene pool evolved via assortative mating for thousands of years.
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Damelon BrinnSeptember 17, 2020 1:46 PM
They were worse than useless and took four months to barely do what a single American programmer could have done in two days.
It's so bad that when you tell people the truth about it, they think you must be exaggerating. But that's completely typical. I currently have a project on hold because we're waiting for the client's outsourced software team to create a file export from a database. That's all. I told my boss three weeks ago that I don't think they know how. We're still waiting. And no one's upset because it's the norm now.
Working with them will turn an hours project into weeks or more. The company's response will be that we don't have enough sharp American programmers to do it all, even as much better as we are. What a surprise, after 30 years of stuffing the colleges with foreigners and suppressing wages. (A co-worker still hates the smell of curry after his dorm reeked of it 24/7.) Too bad, better get to training people, or move your whole operation over there.
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RadixMalorumSeptember 17, 2020 2:09 PM
As a Han Chinese I'd like to first say, aiyah the gweilo knows! shut it down!
Speaking seriously though the moral of the story is you either defend your land and your peoples or you will lose both. We've had to learn that through thousands of years of foreign invasions, occupations and civil wars. Whites will have to learn it too and adapt or be relegated to the margins of history.
On the plus side at least we will treat whites better than the Jews will and unlike Jews we've proven we can maintain a viable civilization. I'd prefer whites maintain their own civilization but at this point it's not looking good.
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BezzleSeptember 17, 2020 2:23 PM
The report sheds light on the Chinese government's vigorous attempt to penetrate the K-12 system...
Yuichiro Kakutani is an earnestly struggling junior tadpole who has no idea how far back this goes.
While they of course had their own nefarious intentions, the tactless and clumsy late-comer Chinese (who fooled no one; they just spread around a ton of cash) will now be expunged as sacrificial scapegoats by the entrenched paleocommunists who've run the public-schooling monstrosity from day 1.
Full of arrows, the shield is discarded.
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Snidely WhiplashSeptember 17, 2020 2:26 PM
Christopher Col wrote:Perhaps the 115 avg IQ for ashkenazi, are US/Euro based.
The number does not come from a study. The 115 IQ estimate comes from a single survey of a single elite Jewish primary school in NYC in the 1950s. Another survey done at about the same time for an Episcopal day school at Trinity Church on Wall Street came up with an IQ of 118 for WASPs.
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Christopher ColSeptember 17, 2020 2:38 PM
I see, thanks.
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History DiverSeptember 17, 2020 2:28 PM
Having worked with many Chinese companies over the years I know for a fact that they skirt every rule, obstacle, limit, and regulation in their path both at home and abroad. It is the national sport. And during my many travels I have yet to meet a Chinese foreign exchange clerk anywhere in the world that has not tried to short-change me BIGLY and SHAMELESSLY.
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Valar AddemmisSeptember 17, 2020 2:55 PM
Snidely Whiplash wrote:The number does not come from a study. The 115 IQ estimate comes from a single survey of a single elite Jewish primary school in NYC in the 1950s. Another survey done at about the same time for an Episcopal day school at Trinity Church on Wall Street came up with an IQ of 118 for WASPs.
Incidentally, the same issue with "Chinese kids are so much better than American kids at math, just look at their standardized test scores!"
I mean, does anyone believe that the Chinese government is making the same effort to make sure they test all kids as we do? In the US public school system, failure (or categorizing kids as special needs) gets you money. Educators and their unions *want* there to be large numbers of underperforming kids, because they are not held accountable and it means more resources put to the problem.
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ScuzzamanSeptember 18, 2020 12:29 AM
Someone has to harvest the rice.
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Yukichi SenseiSeptember 17, 2020 3:18 PM
Having taught a majority foreigners for years, the cheating is true. Sub-Continent India are the worst, followed by Chinese. The Arabs would cheat, but it is too much effort.
India has no ethics besides success of family, so it is seen as good. It is why their society is hell.
In China, every single person who stayed and has any profit is a ticket taker full stop. Complicit on a pile of dead bodies. They have no ethics inside or outside the family. Cheating is just part of the process.
The Chinese civilization Ex-pats, who are various forms of religious (Confucian, Buddhist, Christian) have strong ethics and traditions, and have more good people. There are many fewer of them, and they are easily sucked into Left coast propaganda. Corona has demonstrated they may be hard workers, but not Americans.
Arabs just study for the free money, and when it dries up, they go home. Good.
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Full Blown GretardSeptember 17, 2020 3:20 PM
Not only do they cheat, but their educations are not dumbed down and coated with SJW nonsense.
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BezzleSeptember 17, 2020 3:25 PM
@112. RadixMalorum
As a Han Chinese I'd like to first say... (snip voluminous boasting which carefully omits Mao's famines and depravities) ...I'd prefer whites maintain their own civilization but at this point it's not looking good.
Of course you do: Somebody has to invent the technology for you to copy.
"And you shall shed tears of scarlet."
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Ominous CowherdSeptember 17, 2020 3:30 PM
Valar Addemmis wrote:I mean, does anyone believe that the Chinese government is making the same effort to make sure they test all kids as we do?
The Chinks do exactly the opposite: the dummies and the ner-do-wells never get tested.
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Vaughan WilliamsSeptember 17, 2020 3:49 PM
Arab's don't just study for the free government allowance money. They also come over here for young white women. And what do you find lots of in colleges?
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Valar AddemmisSeptember 17, 2020 3:53 PM
Ominous Cowherd wrote:The Chinks do exactly the opposite: the dummies and the ner-do-wells never get tested.
Exactly. And it shocks me sometimes how many first-worlders never realize that that's even possible. I relish introducing them to the possibility. "But, but...I saw it in a table from some teacher's NGO asking for money!"
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Chill PenguinSeptember 17, 2020 4:30 PM
@89 as you say
> 15Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
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John Best.September 17, 2020 5:12 PM
Always interesting when the Indians and West Indians jibe the English nations about fair play and that's not cricket. They always use your own stuff against you, when you do it back they don't care. This is why the states the English people founded are going to collapse.
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Meng GreenleafSeptember 17, 2020 5:35 PM
The USA was a meritocracy for GenX. But now? Not so much. I feel like the Japanese have a meritocracy. But, there's also a strong push to do what your parents do.
Which got me to thinking about two things:
1. As the pie shrinks, I think it will be harder for people to step outside of the family business (if possible). I'd base this around the loss of line-work, and the history of doing what your father does, being the norm.
2. White privilege
I have thought this this was fake, but now I think it is real. White privilege is nothing more than a bunch of White people acting White. For Black, these see this as a "privilege" because a bunch of Blacks acting Black, aren't able to succeed in such a society. However, for Asians, or Indians - White privilege (aka: the average genetic disposition of White populations) is an easy nut to crack. Which is why they're both richer.
Thus, we could conclude meritocracy that has a level of equity is most likely in a homogeneous society.
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Jack AmokSeptember 17, 2020 5:56 PM
35 years in IT have taught me a few lessons.
Nods
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BobiojimboSeptember 17, 2020 6:25 PM
Reminds me of a story the radio, morning DJ shared. He said he worked with 4 Mexicans who all shared the same name, SSN, lived together, and would take turns working at the restaurant.
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Chip HazardSeptember 17, 2020 6:26 PM
Mr.MantraMan wrote:
I also support Israel, I just don't want to be ruled by their despotic tendencies.
One word: Anime.
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Chip HazardSeptember 17, 2020 6:37 PM
"Arab's don't just study for the free government allowance money. They also come over here for young white women."
Classic study of Alpha Fux, Beta Bux.
I have a acquaintance who married a fat Polish woman who used to be very, very attractive (thin, tall) and also during that time had a Saudi guy as a 'boyfriend'. I used to taunt my acquaintance regularly, "He banged her. You can't deny that." in a an effort to get him to drop her.
But he didn't. He's fat, over 40, what else is he gonna do to brighten up his shitty life.
Winners aren't Losers.
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AvalancheSeptember 17, 2020 7:41 PM
@9 "Its not easy for fakers to survive in a good Engineering program."
Of which there are how many? A couple hundred across the country? Maybe a thousand at the outside? And ALL the hundreds of thousands of Chinese students somehow more resemble your engineering students than the people they come from? Mentally, emotionally, spiritually?
There's even an initialism for that: IKAGO = "I Know A Good One!
And when those survivors of your good Engineering programs get out to do actual work do they have the same diligence and attention to actually DOING the work correctly, or do they just work to meet the deadline? Since they no longer need the grades to get the degree, do they fall back on the VERY common Chinese 'just get it done, whatever it takes and even if it kills someone"?
The Brit and Aussie construction mgrs on the Three Gorges Dam QUIT because the CCP wouldn't bend when they refused the poor concrete and below-spec rebar... But CHINESE engineers built with it anyway.
They are not us. They don't take for granted what we take for granted. Even academic paperwork from American engineering schools does not provide Magic Dirt.
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AvalancheSeptember 17, 2020 8:00 PM
@27 "I agree with you that the US is headed for a crisis, so I have extracted what assets can be, and I have a lifeline out for the kids."
So, you're just one more parasite in a long line of parasites. Managed to get out before the host died or got too sick to be worth sucking on?
You may indeed have been a good engineer I'm not denying that: but what about the ACTUAL American boy who didn't get that seat at the good engineering program? Where does HE 'escape' to? What jobs and life did HE miss out on, because some foreigner came here and took his spot in that engineering program? And you even write you've left your kids here to parasite some more until they HAVE to get out.
Really, you have NO defense; no explanation for why you did this, other than "Man! White Americans are soooo gullible! Really easy to take advantage of." Only Euro-derived folks would find your taking advantage to be wrong and unkind to other members of our nation -- for YOUR people, taking advantage is natural, normal, and "serves those dummies right for letting us come swarming in TO take advantage of them."
No Magic Dirt: no reason for you to feel proud of taking advantage of the people who BUILT this country and developed the engineering, engineering school, and engineering program you took from the people it was built FOR.
Gratitude and appreciation would not go amiss. Not your culture, not your religion, not your people.
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AvalancheSeptember 17, 2020 8:14 PM
@28 "British did not see Indians as useless. They deputed them all over the empire"
That would be AFTER the Brits conquered them, and educated them, and tried to build a, granted different, civilization such as the Indians never had. And after the Brits had taught how to not be useless, they were of use to the Brits and perhaps also to their own peoples. Welcome to conquest: the human condition!
After the Brits left? Hmmmm, a LOT of that usefulness has declined for a HUGE number, has it not? And many of the ones who remained 'useful' are leaving in huge numbers; bringing their own ways -- which include cheating and pretending to skills and abilities they do not have -- to invade a country and people not their own, and then bring in their own people through, not infrequently, cheating and lying.
Your self-defense is a bit thin.
Oh and your: "Extended family in India sucks, just like the rest of the world. They are jealous, conniving and looking for any weakness to bring you down."
That is not how most extended families amongst our people are or act! Sure there are a few, but MOST of our people support and help their extended family members. And how do you balance your description with most of the Indians here in the U.S. firing and/or forcing out Whites from their own businesses, and replacing them with their own Indian people!? Conniving, yes -- but on behalf of THEIR people.
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AvalancheSeptember 17, 2020 8:20 PM
@46 "over the next 6 months realized the guy they interviewed for the job wasn't the guy doing the work"
A lot of hiring firms and school are not TAKING PHOTOS of the guy who shows up to take the test or interview. The guy who shows up for the test or to work has to MATCH the photo!
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VDSeptember 17, 2020 8:21 PM
So, you're just one more parasite in a long line of parasites.
While that's true, it's also not fair. How was Buyawa supposed to know that US civic nationalism was a lie? A lot of people - a LOT of them - both inside and outside the USA believed the lies they were told. I know I did.
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RMH in StLSeptember 17, 2020 8:41 PM
In the "light" of woke thinking, all this "fair play" stuff and abiding by the rules is just our whiteness oppressing the indigenous peoples of color.
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AvalancheSeptember 17, 2020 9:15 PM
@100 "Chinese always have an angle. They have some way they're cheaping out, cutting corners, stealing equipment that they hope you won't notice"
And thus, there are some 400 MILLION Chinese in the flood path when/if the Three Gorges Dam burst, which is about 50/50... It deformed visibly a few years ago in a super high flood year; and this year is WAY worse flooding, and it's suffering "displacement, seepage, and deformation." CCP says it's all fine; this is within design specs... but they've moved almost 4 million folks out of the current flooding. Just another 396 MILLION if they can't save that dam!
(Wuhan is IN the flood path: Yangtze River in Wuhan on July 12, 2020 https://cdn.theatlantic.com/thumbor/qhW4NIAHcCgaOw20t5qJgP2-u7A=/900x600/media/img/photo/2020/08/china-floods/a26_1226600947/original.jpg)
Aug 18: "By last week, 63 million people had been affected by floods,"
China's not likely to be a huge problem for us for a little while, I think. And then they'll need to buy food, lots and lots of food!
Tons of details: https://www.heritage.org/asia/commentary/what-the-potential-crisis-the-yangtze-means-china-and-the-world
What does your company or doctor import from China? Make shift now!
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furor kek tonicus ( if you don't want to Racist, you must confess: Islam is right about the Jews )September 17, 2020 9:48 PM
108. Seeingsights September 17, 2020 1:34 PM
As Thomas Sowell and others show, there ARE differences between ethnic groups.
speaking of, i decided to look for Negro chess players.
it seems that there have only ever been 3 Negro Grandmasters in the history of the world, and none of them have been ranked in the top 1500.
which is pretty much what you would expect for a population which, as a percentage, has fewer 100iq individuals than Whites have at 120iq.
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ScuzzamanSeptember 18, 2020 12:15 AM
Chess is so raycisssss!!!
Blacks always second! To whites!!
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AvalancheSeptember 17, 2020 10:00 PM
@139 "While that's true, it's also not fair. How was Buyawa supposed to know that US civic nationalism was a lie?"
You are kind, Vox. However, Buyawa was here for 30-some years working as an engineer. I don't think the lure of civic nationalism applies to Buyawa: having taken training such as he could not get at home, he was seemingly not intending to "try to be American" but rather to work till he could retire "back home" as he has done. He does not seem, even now, to believe in CN -- and expects his children, too, to return home.
On discovering the lie of civic nationalism and picking up the necessary/rightful pride in our heritage, many of us here at VP work to stop doing things that harm our people. Buyawa thinks it's good that his children are still here taking advantage of the same harms to our people he took advantage of -- and defending it to us! He wants them to escape when they need to, but it's fine that they are here now. (Where do WE escape to?)
I am tired of trying to be fair towards people who come here to take advantage, and then don't see that they have done so; or if they do see it, well, it's okay because it was for their family, and no concern for the nation and its people who built the county they took advantage of.
I'm not even entirely averse to letting some *small* proportion of our education systems be used by foreigners, so long as they GO HOME on graduation and use their skills, either really learned or cheated for, on behalf of their people; not stay here until retirement or escape leads them to go. No one goes to "boarding school" and then lives there forever after. Get educated and go home!
And I'm not kind.
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ScuzzamanSeptember 18, 2020 1:11 AM
@John Rockwell
The climate of Europe conditions the people to several related realities.
One is time preference. People who live in cold climates either plan ahead or they die next winter. Call it Darwinian if you like but the lazy and the stupid don't survive.
Secondly, when things go wrong, as they always do, you learn how to help each other. Or, once again, nobody survives.
So the geography and climate predisposed the people to a metaphysic of long-term planning, investment, and reward. Delayed gratification is the farmer's bread and butter.
Immediate relief from want, pain, and emotional distress, are the raider's ethics.
You could say that God created Europe to train the faithful.
It's no coincidence that modern prosperity, which is the fruit of Christian belief, is also the seed of sloth, hedonism, and cheating.
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HylemorphistSeptember 18, 2020 1:48 AM
The Chinese care a lot about "face". They care about how other people see them. They tend to use Western educational infrastructure by hook and by crook to ultimately try and improve their own institutions.
I also get the feeling that Asians are much more aware of the revolutionary spirit of the tribe. They seem to actively block tribal intrusion into silicon foundries at TSMC and Samsung (the Lee family successfully warded off an attack by Paul Singer and Co.). Bad news for the tribe since Intel is now lagging far behind TSMC. Intel is struggling to make good yields of 10nm (surprise... in Israel) while TSMC is already working on 5nm. The fight for Taiwan is important in long term dominance of the microchip market and AI. ASML hold the ace with the development of EUV printers. Trump will do well if he can invest in US talent and collaborate with ASML to develop Western foundries.
@ post #53:
The Viking at the top the chess world sure seems to be pissing off the chess.com tribe. Good thing he invested in chess24.
Anyway, I found Pratisara:
https://youtu.be/wMpis38ZewI
The mustaches avenger.
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OneWingedSharkSeptember 18, 2020 8:32 AM
Sillon wrote:You couldn't be more wrong, the average Anglo population are almost ridiculously naive when it comes to dealing with people from outside their borders.
I'm generalising here but Anglos can't even entertain the idea that their government is selling them cheap, can't entertain the idea of being replace, can't entertain the idea of everybody who's not anglo taking advantage of them, etc.
Hang out on 4chan's /pol/ board for a week and you'll be thinking quite differently.
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Ominous CowherdSeptember 18, 2020 9:32 AM
furor kek tonicus ( if you don't want to Racist, you must confess: Islam is right about the Jews ) wrote:... which is pretty much what you would expect for a population which, as a percentage, has fewer 100iq individuals than Whites have at 120iq.
Trying to guess your assumptions, mein furor. You are probably considering all Africans, not just American-African half breeds, so average IQ below the A-A average of 85? Are you assuming SD=15 for both Africans and Caucasians, or are you assuming a lower SD for the Africans?
OneWingedShark wrote:Hang out on 4chan's /pol/ board for a week and you'll be thinking quite differently.
Gonna guess that channers aren't very average. Yet.
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RadixMalorumSeptember 18, 2020 11:54 AM
Bezzle wrote:@112. RadixMalorum
As a Han Chinese I'd like to first say... (snip voluminous boasting which carefully omits Mao's famines and depravities) ...I'd prefer whites maintain their own civilization but at this point it's not looking good.
Of course you do: Somebody has to invent the technology for you to copy.
"And you shall shed tears of scarlet."
Your reading comprehension is lacking. My post wasn't about boasting. I feel sympathy for what the west is going through.
Maybe if you guys actually had a Mao your country wouldn't have been subverted.
History shows great leaders aren't necessarily good people. I'd trade tens of millions of Han dead in Mao's famines if it meant China wasn't subverted by hostile foreign (((locusts))). Because that type of subversion is the only thing capable of permanently destroying the Han people where thousands of years of famines and wars can't.
In order to regain ground and restore your nation it would take probably far more Americans dead in the long run than those that died under Mao.
Like VD said in some of his streams history may show that even communism is better for the nation than liberalism.
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OneWingedSharkSeptember 18, 2020 12:12 PM
Ominous Cowherd wrote:OneWingedShark wrote:Hang out on 4chan's /pol/ board for a week and you'll be thinking quite differently.
Gonna guess that channers aren't very average. Yet.
Probably not; but I think there's more anger and willingness to act than is admitted by most anybody. (Certainly the MSM.) — The responses to the "peaceful protests" show even people like self-admitted "milktoast left-leaning centrist" Tim Pool getting a gun. The response to Kyle is interesting: obvious self-defense trying to be rebranded as a murder by MSM/twitter gaslighting shows people how absolutely geared against justice government is. And the obvious pushes for more foreign labor even as 40+ million are unemployed by "American" companies?
There's going to be a lot of people who used to be "just want the foreigners gone" transition to wanting them "dead and gone" — especially considering that Trump has been demonized despite doing very little (ie no mass-deportations).
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xevious2030September 18, 2020 4:27 PM
"may show that even communism is better for the nation than liberalism"
It isn't the system, it is tolerance.
Tolerance + high trust = exploitable.
Intolerance + high trust = give them to God to sort.
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BezzleSeptember 18, 2020 6:16 PM
@155. RadixMalorum
Maybe if you guys actually had a Mao your country wouldn't have been subverted.
Mao was the subverter. He destroyed as much of Chinese Confucian culture as he could manage.
I'd trade tens of millions of Han dead in Mao's famines if it meant China wasn't subverted by hostile foreign (((locusts))).
Mao was a (((Marxist-Leninist))) -- a puppet locust.
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